Transcript
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Well, welcome to the Words for Change podcast.
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This is Lionel, your host.
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I am super area and he's going to enlighten us, encourage us and give us perhaps a different perspective about prayer that we've never thought about before.
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So I want you to lock in and engage, because we know that nothing changes until you change first, and change comes through you experiencing God in your life and experiencing all that God has for you.
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Boy, this is going to be a great interview.
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Grab your favorite cup of coffee and let's make this thing happen.
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Well, we're on the other side and we have our special guest today David Choctaw.
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David, how are you today?
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I'm very well.
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Thank you very much, and how about yourself, lionel?
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I'm doing good.
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We had a faux pas in the very beginning.
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Yes, we did.
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Yes, but our time was off.
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But hey, I am excited that you have joined the Words for Change podcast, and I'm excited because many of our guests, our audience, are people who have perhaps gone through some spiritual disillusionment or been hurt by the church, and they're in a transitory stage of life, and so our job is to help people reconnect with the message of Jesus, to reconnect with what Christ has said, done and the mission that God has given us in the world, so that we can come into the fullness of what God has for us.
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So would you do me a great favor and introduce yourself to the people and tell everyone about all the wonderful things, how God has blessed you, to empower people through your writings and through your services that you offer.
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That's a lot to put into a two sentence introduction I know I know, my name is David Chotka.
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I'm a Canadian, I live just.
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I'm about 150 yards from the Detroit River, so on the other side is Michigan.
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So I'm the almost American, but not quite.
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We'll forgive you.
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We'll forgive you.
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Oh, sure, sure, I've been a pastor since 1983 and I've served five churches.
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And, uh, I have been I'm actually the the past chair used to be the chair, the past chair of alliance pray, and that's the prayer equipping arm of the domination.
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I'm serving in christian missionary alliance, and one of the one of the anchor distinctives of the cma is that we do believe that jesus is the healer and that this is part and parcel of the ordinary means of what it is to obey the Lord and to seek him and for the power of the gospel to become real and tangible in our lives.
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And so I have been privileged to be able to take part in teaching that kind of teaching across the planet.
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I've so far spoken in 17 countries, teaching across the planet.
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I've so far spoken in 17 countries.
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Biggest crowd was 50,000.
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Smallest was six 50,000 people.
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How'd you feel?
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Well, that was amazing.
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So here's what happened.
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So it's connected to the healing prayer book, so it actually is a good way to tell the story.
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So my church partnered together with two American congregations there's one in Nyack, new York, and one down in Atlanta, georgia and we made the commitment to try and help northern Uganda rebuild.
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We met a bishop who was from there.
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He had planted 48 churches.
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Can you get that?
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48 churches?
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Anyway, it had been a war zone.
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It was terrible.
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The Idi Amin and Joseph Kony were the two guys who were behind this awful thing, and Kony in particular was an evil, wicked, malicious, awful guy.
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So I wound up going to the town of Arua in the north part of Uganda, and every year they would do a crusade.
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And so the thing was, and thousands of people would say yes to the claims of Christ.
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So, as it turned out, I was given an opportunity to speak on that platform and there were 50 000 people in the crowd.
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And I'll just tell you something that was really kind of carnal I gave an altar call and only 600 people responded and I felt bad, only only only 600.
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Yeah right, only 600, oh man you're just a bad preacher.
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That's all I'll tell you because I was speaking in english and the crowd spoke and I was translated, so the local guys did a much better job at it than I could, but regardless, it was this great privilege and what we saw left, right and center was miraculous, astonishing signs and wonders and gifts of healing and so on.
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One of the most defining moments of that was um and this is not in my healing prayer book, but it's worth to tell um uh, when I first went 2007, I was um underneath the canopy in the middle in the equatorial heat, because it's very hot there, it's right on the equator, it goes right through.
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Of course, I'm not used to that kind of heat, and so anybody who was a guest was allowed to sit under that canopy.
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And just a few feet away from me there was a lady who was paralyzed sitting on a dirty board.
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I arrived there at 3, 4 o'clock in the afternoon and I looked at this lady.
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They would bring the very sick right to the front of this crusade.
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This lady.
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They would bring the very sick right to the front of this crusade and they would and we're talking about pathetically, you know terribly ill.
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So I was only like 10, 15 feet from this lady and I watched a fly crawl up her face and go into her eye to get a drink, and she couldn't even open or close her eyes.
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Her hands were stiff, her body was paralyzed and then the service started.
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And we're talking about you, know I hands were stiff, her body was paralyzed and the service started.
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And we're talking about you, know I.
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Don't know if you've been to an African service.
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It's easily four hours or five hours.
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We've had African services.
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Well, you know, there's not a lot of departure from African American, particularly Gospel, pentecostal style services.
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No same style.
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Yep, yeah exactly Four hours hours ago and there's going to be signs and wonders.
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People are going to pray, they're going to worship, they're going to dance and oh, by the way, when they dance it's not sexual, it is entirely focused on their whole body being involved in an encounter with god.
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So I mean this is happening on the platform and I'm watching this lady and she's not moving and her whole body.
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I mean she were talking about paralyzed, stiff, with fingers, like this, and her head at an angle while that fly crawled up.
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So I mean it was so clear this was not a phony, this was not a fake.
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Anyway, the preacher's on the platform and suddenly he says this the healing anointing is on me.
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And he stepped off the platform and he went down and he touched that lady's hand and she went back to the platform to finish the service and that's all he did.
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There was no hype, there was no push, there was no, you know, there was no trying to get the adrenaline to rise.
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And suddenly this lady's arms began to move.
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And I'm watching this and I've watched her for three hours Now.
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Just over from from me there was a local lady by the name of elizabeth queen.
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Of course, we teased her by calling her queen elizabeth, you know, anyway, she had a radio program and she had.
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She.
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She had six radio stations that she broadcast on.
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She was there for the crusade.
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And she walks up to the lady whose hands are starting to move and she begins to gently rub them and she places her hand on the lady's head and starts to pray and within five minutes that lady, who'd been paralyzed for hours, was on her feet and now her arms were starting to move.
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And then her legs began to move like she was walking with stumps, and then she began to walk across the field like she was a new, like a toddler, and the next thing, you know, she was completely restored and she ran across the field.
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That happened in the course of about 15, 20 minutes, as I watched there from underneath this canopy and and really determined very clearly.
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The lady was very paralyzed and it was just astonishing to see that began an acceleration of the healing prayer gift in my own personal ministry, that that moment there.
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So anyway, what happened was that we paid for these three churches, lilburn Alliance in Atlanta and Risen King Alliance in New York, and my church, spruce Grove Alliance, in Spruce Grove, alberta.
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The three of us partnered together to send teams of people to teach the pastors and train them, because they had been in a war zone for 20 years and there was no education.
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If you could read, you've done well, you know.
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So the person who could read the book wound up becoming the mayor or something because they could.
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They could do this kind of thing, or they become the local school teacher or something, but they didn't have a lot.
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So my church, svershka of Alliance, made this commitment to try and help people in North Uganda and this boomerang effect is what really set things into motion.
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I would go there to teach and lead.
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In fact, the first book I wrote if I've got a copy of it here- First book yes, I wrote this one to give to them, to help them.
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I wrote this to give to the Ugandans.
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It's called Power Praying.
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Hold on the Power Praying, the Power Praying, powerful Praying, wow, powerful Praying.
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What's that book about?
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David.
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This book is a theological investigation into each key word and phrase of Jesus' Lord's Prayer, and so I was putting that in the background and teaching the content.
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That eventually became this book, and I gave this book to the Ugandans.
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But you know, here's the thing, there were 750 to a thousand every year, 750 to a thousand.
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And my church paid for their meals and paid for their transport and paid for their books and paid for their education for four days once a year for times three.
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And so in year two, you know we'd spent half a million bucks, right?
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So my church said, you know we'd spent half a million bucks, right?
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So my church said, you know, and they really believe that this is the right thing to do, we would take teams of people to help build because some of the infrastructure had been destroyed.
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And so some of the build teams built a library, they built a school, they built a latrine, they built things that they could use to train students and kids and as well as adults, and we bought books for them and we bought their meals and we got them a place to stay and so on and so forth.
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Anyways, a lot of money.
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So my elders looked at me one day and said, david, that's a lot of money.
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I said, yeah, it is.
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So they said let's fly the guy in.
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Church and church budgets, you know, yeah, well, I know, but that's still a lot of money, church or church budget or not.
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So, they said let's fly the guy in.
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So they flew him into my church and here was the transformative moment that changed my life forever.
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So here's what this guy gets up in front of the congregation and he's preaching and here's what happened.
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We had three services in those days.
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We had a Saturday night at 6 o'clock or 7 o'clock at night, then we had a Sunday morning at 9 o'clock and we had another one at 11.
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And the Saturday night was the smallest and the 9 o'clock was what I call the conservative service, where everybody would sort of show up, do the liturgy and get out.
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The 11 o'clock was the Pentecostal kind of thing.
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We're going to wave our hands around yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, anyway.
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So the Saturday Nighters hear this guy speaking about deliverance from death, war stories when people were praying and Kony was being defeated, and so we're talking major kind of life and death scenario stories.
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And they walk up to us, to me and the preacher, and they say look, we're coming again tomorrow morning, tell different stories.
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So we both nodded our head, we right.
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So they show.
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So they text their friends, they call their friends, they, you know, phone them on phone, and so the next morning what is usually a medium-sized congregation is quite full right, and so the saturday nighters, plus their friends, plus the regular attenders for nine o'clock, were there.
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And of course he does this once again.
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He's telling these amazing deliverance from death stories.
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He's talking about how he's trying to rebuild North Uganda Thank you for your partnership and everybody's hanging on every word.
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And so the nine o'clockers stay around for the 11 o'clock, which is ordinarily a full service, and that full so that full service is now oversized.
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Now here's the thing that congregation could sit building could seat about 450 comfortably and we had an overflow and we had, you know, speakers in the background and so on, and we had easily 650 people in that service.
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It was jammed to the rafters and, you know, there were people standing up and down the walls, there were people sitting in the aisles and I had to sit on the steps where that kid's story would be told.
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It sounds like a Billy Graham story, man oh man.
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So so just in front of me is my wife.
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Now she has been had been afflicted with something called muscular FSH muscular dystrophy.
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Now it's in the news now because the Lulu lemon founder has the same affliction, and so he has just given a hundred million dollar donation to the muscular dystrophy association in the united states to see if a cure can be found for this particular stream of muscular dystrophy.
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It's called fascioscapular humular, and so it starts with parent, with your face sagging, your muscles make it impossible for you to to use your lips well, so you have trouble smiling, you have trouble whistling, you can't do that.
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And then it goes down into your shoulder blades.
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Your shoulder blades point upward, your shoulders get rounded, you get scoliosis in the spine.
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You start having chronic pain between 16 and 20.
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You start to shuffle the muscles in your core, waste away.
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They don't regener, regenerate, and if you damage a muscle you never get it back again.
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You're dizzy between after 16 or 17, lose your balance, fall regularly, and so on.
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So the lululemon guy just had an article come out about a year ago and he's shuffling with his feet and he can't walk, walk up and downstairs because he has to lift his leg to get on the next step and so on.
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You can't put your shoulders any higher than your arms, higher than your shoulders, because you lose the ability for your muscles to be able to manage that.
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And my wife had this, her mother had this, her sister had this, her niece has this, and so genetics yeah, that's right.
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So anyway, I married the girl because hey, she's the first one to laugh at my bad jokes, notice I said hey, at the end of that sentence there's my Canadian showing up.
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At any rate, I knew my future would be pushing a wheelchair.
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I knew that and I didn't know if we'd have kids.
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You know, this is regardless of this.
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It was the girl I loved and so on.
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So we marry and we do have a son, but she gave birth to our son, lost a lot of ground and so a lot of those muscles got just weakened.
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We adopted our daughter anyway.
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The point is we have two kids and we're doing our best and she's.
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It's a plateau, decline, disease.
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So the way it works is you go along at a particular level and then suddenly you have a catastrophic loss.
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Then your body adjusts and you plateau for a while.
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Then you have a catastrophic loss.
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Then your body adjusts and you plateau for a while, then you have a catastrophic loss, et cetera, et cetera, until you wind up first of all using canes and then using a walker and then using a wheelchair, and if you damage a muscle you'll never get it back.
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You don't die young, but you die in a wheelchair, without mobility.
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Anyway, here's the bottom line.
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So we're in church and there's this amazing preacher who's telling stories about deliverance for death.
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And you know how those stories work.
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Right, you tell the beginning of the story and you keep them in suspense until the action ends.
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So he's done that in two services and we're in the third one and he's told the story, but we haven't got to the deliverance from death part.
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And he stopped in the middle of the story and he looks at me and he says David, david, what is M?
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A?
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I said M a uh, master of arts, I don't know, right, right, no, no, no, no, I got something terribly wrong.
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And he puts his his hands in his head.
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Then he puts his head on the pulpit and he's silent, with his crowd of 650 people waiting for the end of the war story anyway yeah.
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And then he looks up and he looks down at me and he says it's a wasting muscle disease.
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It starts in your head and it makes your face sag and it goes down into your shoulders and makes them round and then your shoulder blades go out of position and you get curved spine and then you get chronic pain between 16 and 20.
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And he had no idea he was giving a perfect medical description of my wife's FSH muscular dystrophy.
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And then he said this whoever has this, jesus has just healed you.
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Now I'm looking at my wife.
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She's two rows out from where I'm sitting and her arms have been unable to get higher than this for decades.
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And now her arms go above her head for the first time in more than 20 years.
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And now her arms go above her head for the first time in more than 20 years while our friends and family are looking on.
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It was an.
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All pain from her body vanished and she began to grow muscle tissue from that point forward.
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Now here's what happened after that was done.
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We had company who had come from out of town because they were trying to determine if they should travel to be part of the build project.
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So we had guests in our house, right?
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So after church is done, of course everybody's amazed and in awe and nobody wants to service day, nobody wants to move in a minute yeah.
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Yeah, oh, it was incredible.
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But regardless of the service day, man and we had an evening thing.
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We were partying with another congregation in town and so an evening thing.
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We were partying with another congregation in town, and so the evening thing was in the other congregation up the street.
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There was going to be Sunday night, monday night, tuesday night.
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I had the first three days.
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He had the second three days.
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Anyway, we're at my home and my wife had asked me to get to the top shelves to take down the heavy pots and pans that she couldn't reach and ordinarily we wouldn't use, so she could make the lunch for the company.
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And as we, as I walk in, I'm getting out the step to get up in there and she pushes me out of the way as she stands on the step and she pulls down the heavy pots and pans herself.
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She's not done that in decades and it's just this incredible thing.
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And actually two weeks later I really knew she was healed.
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This is what the first part is.
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The story is in my healing prayer book.
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The second part is the one that is not in the story.
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So my son and my daughter were sitting at breakfast two weeks later and my daughter is always, always, always, other, centered, gentle, sweet and kind, and she made the decision that she was going to push every button that my son had, every emotional trigger, every mistake he ever made.
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She's naming these crazy things to him and he's doing his best to be a valiant, kind lad, you know.
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But he was on the verge of losing it and I was just about to discipline our daughter when suddenly my wife stood up and she said Jessica Chotka, that's enough.
00:19:08.230 --> 00:19:25.393
And she stomped her foot and she grabbed my daughter by the hand and she ran her up the stairs and got into the bedroom and knelt down beside the bed and made her pick up all of her toys and make her bed, brush her teeth in the bathroom, got her to brush her teeth, ran her down the stairs, got her in the van, drove her to school.
00:19:25.393 --> 00:19:27.116
We were so mad.
00:19:30.269 --> 00:19:33.056
It took us hours to realize she ran up the stairs.
00:19:33.704 --> 00:19:34.490
Right, right.
00:19:34.529 --> 00:19:37.814
Yeah, you know she had not run up any stairs.
00:19:37.814 --> 00:19:38.576
Wow.
00:19:38.576 --> 00:19:43.653
Now our doctor had known us for five years.
00:19:43.653 --> 00:19:54.451
He waited three more and then he wrote the doctor's note saying there's no trace of FSH muscular dystrophy in this woman's body.
00:19:54.451 --> 00:19:54.952
It's gone.
00:19:54.992 --> 00:19:56.556
Wow, what a story.
00:19:59.506 --> 00:20:01.753
Well, it's the most, but you know it started off.
00:20:01.753 --> 00:20:03.711
There was a theological principle under this.
00:20:03.711 --> 00:20:05.951
We had prayed for years for my wife to be healed.
00:20:05.971 --> 00:20:06.875
Now hold on, hold on, david.
00:20:06.875 --> 00:20:12.494
So before you do that, before you do that, because I want to make sure our audience is following you, okay?
00:20:12.494 --> 00:20:17.834
So your wife had been diagnosed with MA.
00:20:18.855 --> 00:20:19.277
MS.
00:20:19.277 --> 00:20:20.038
Sorry, md.
00:20:20.038 --> 00:20:22.691
Fsh MD yes.
00:20:23.112 --> 00:20:26.634
Yes, so she's now in a prayer service.
00:20:26.634 --> 00:20:43.300
You're traveling, preaching, doing some great things over on the continent of Africa, and a gentleman, a pastor, missionary, whomever prophesies right literally to you what your wife is experiencing.
00:20:43.807 --> 00:20:44.810
Yeah, while I'm watching.
00:20:46.585 --> 00:20:50.113
And while you're watching this, and then she is healed.
00:20:50.113 --> 00:20:54.663
But then the confirmation comes that she's healed.
00:20:54.663 --> 00:20:57.887
God shows up in the most miraculous ways.
00:20:57.887 --> 00:21:04.278
So she's healed and it's been in this, confirmed when she's angry and disciplined.
00:21:04.518 --> 00:21:05.799
I can send you the doctor's note.
00:21:05.799 --> 00:21:06.180
I can.
00:21:06.180 --> 00:21:13.719
And the power of the story is that we were known by that church for fully five years.
00:21:13.719 --> 00:21:23.837
The doctor knew my family for fully five years, and so they saw the before, they saw the decline and then they saw the instant heal.
00:21:23.837 --> 00:21:28.528
And so this was not done with some stranger who's making a claim.
00:21:29.330 --> 00:21:32.357
This happened in front of people with whom we have a life.
00:21:32.357 --> 00:21:35.538
We have been living with them, working with them, worshiping with them.
00:21:35.538 --> 00:21:37.989
I've been their pastor, I've been their leader.
00:21:37.989 --> 00:21:44.551
Some of them had traveled with me to africa, some of them had been a mission ship beyond that one with me to other people, et cetera.
00:21:44.551 --> 00:21:47.117
So this was not something that happened in a corner.
00:21:47.117 --> 00:21:53.498
It was something that happened, and it was by the invitation of the elder board of that church that this man came to my church at all.
00:21:53.498 --> 00:22:01.558
So all of this was my—and actually I can't tell you the number of times we prayed for my wife's healing and it didn't happen.
00:22:01.558 --> 00:22:11.910
And we made a decision and this is an important theological principle we made a decision to seek the healer, not to seek the healing.
00:22:13.173 --> 00:22:16.946
So, so, so, David, let me, let me, let me jump in here real quick.
00:22:16.946 --> 00:22:28.944
So how did you get you know To this, this point of where you, you are writing, you are influencing people, you are preaching, you are doing?
