#57 The Intersection of Faith, Public Health, and Healing #faith #healing

Speaker 1: 0:00

Matthew, chapter four, verse 23, said Jesus went throughout the areas of Galilee teaching and preaching the kingdom of God and healing all kinds of sicknesses and diseases. One of the issues I think we deal with in the church today is that our biblical interpretation doesn't match our behavior, and the goal is to get us to match up our behavior with our faith. Hello, welcome to another episode of Words for Change podcast. I am your host, lionel, super excited that you are here today, man, we're gonna talk about faith and healing today. Vichel Sandeak is gonna come and talk to us and she's gonna talk about faith and healing. I am Lionel, your host, and we're gonna change your world today. We're back on the other side. Oh, man, we have our special guest today. How are you doing, vichel?

Speaker 3: 0:48

I'm doing great, lionel. Thank you for having me on the show. I'm looking forward to the conversation today, such an important topic, right.

Speaker 1: 0:55

Oh my, I am super looking forward to the conversation and because it's a needed conversation. It's a needed conversation because of the importance of what's happening in our world and in our church. And I'll just be honest with you, vichel, there are a lot of people in the Christian era or even in the Christian arena, various faith traditions, not just Christian, which obviously you know I'm Christian because you know Big Reverend Bailey there on the thing but there are people from different faith traditions who I find I find it troubling that their faith typically doesn't match their behavior, and that's a problem that I want to get at today and we're gonna talk about it from a very, very interesting perspective that I think you can bring a lot of clarity to and a lot of expertise. I want to share something with you before we get started. There's a CDC report that that came out recently and it was about health and racism, and this, this CDC report that was looking at the screen, you can see this online talked about how the the large disparity between physical health and racism, and you can see that the research says here that in the American culture, racism in this country has had a profound and negative impact on communities of color, and I can tell you from growing up in a very impoverished community, you know health, having a proper health care, was something that we just did not have. The show, and not only that, we didn't have any access to, couldn't figure it out, and so obviously that has an issue. So I mean it has an impact, sorry. So this data shows that racial and ethnic minority groups in the United States experience high rates of illnesses and death across a wide range of health conditions, including diabetes, hypertension, obesity, asthma, heart disease, you name it. It's there, okay, and so what? What I think will be beneficial for us today is to to look at this topic and to look at this conversation from a very unique perspective. So before I go on, I'm gonna introduce you. Michelle is a PhD. Have you done you finish your PhD yet?

Speaker 3: 3:17

No, no, I'm actually getting a DRPH, which? Is a practice-based type of PhD. We focus a lot on the practice of public health in terms of solving complex challenges in different ethnic communities or, you know, communities with health disparities, let's just put it that way. So I'm just finishing up my first semester, so no, I have not finished yet.

Speaker 1: 3:44

But you're on, well on your way. Well on you, I am, yes. So so Michelle is also an author. She's a communicator, speaker, workshop facilitator, and she has been focusing in this era of health and physical health. That's kind of that's her passion, and I thought this would be a great conversation to have, because not only does Michelle deal with these very, very important issues, but she also addresses issues like racism, personal growth. She's an author. We're gonna let her talk about that a little bit as well, about her book, and then we'll have it in the show notes where you can go and access that book that she's participated in, writing and so. But we asked her to come on today because of her expertise in the area of healthcare. So, michelle, what do you think about racism and at least the CDC report that I brought up a moment ago?

Speaker 3: 4:37

I think, based on the CDC report that you brought up, I do agree that racism is, or has become, sort of a factor in ensuring that certain communities are sort of not put on the forefront when it comes to the healthcare messages that are being distributed and then also the healthcare that some communities are receiving. It is an impediment, definitely, to people getting access to healthcare. But the bigger question is, you know, how do we dismantle racism? And that's like an ongoing question that we have been trying to find an answer to for decades and we still have not come up to a direct answer, just because, in order for us to dismantle racism, we also have to take a step back and look at the systems that enable racism. And so when we talk about you know, even as you started the show we're talking about faith. But faith also involves doing some self reflection and really trying to figure out okay, what am I doing? What was I doing that contributed to the success or to the progress of making sure that communities have access to care, and what are some of the decisions that have made that are not contributing to the progress of that endeavor, and really trying to pivot your approach and your strategies in order to make sure that people get access to healthcare. But that requires self reflection and I think sometimes people just don't have the time to do that because they're on this roller coaster or this elevator that keeps going up and down and they don't have the time to really think through the ramifications of the decisions that they making and the impact that it's going to have on these communities that we're talking about or that are referenced on that CDC report.

Speaker 1: 6:45

Yeah, you know the CDC report is, I thought is very, very interesting. I'm not 100% surprised about it, to be honest with you. But the reason why faith is important in this conversation about health, because the script not only you know, there are many different religious verses or spiritual verses and sacred texts that talk about how, at least from my traditional faith background, how physical health was a part of making communities hold and over. You know what is it? 8 billion people on the planet the research that was done as well, and there's more research by CDC that says over 87% 87% of the population, the world population, have some type of religious faith. 87%. So that means that individuals all throughout the world as far as we're able to calculate and find those communities and document have some type of religious faith that drives their behavior. Does that make sense? Yes, and so we have some type of religious faith that drives their behavior. So for us to ignore the religious faith and how it affects our everyday life is problematic. I think we're totally missing something there. So tell us a little bit about how, the maybe that your passion when you're passing in the healthcare industry. So let's talk about particularly what, what, what it is that's driving you within this conversation today on the healthcare side or the racism side, because they're. These are all encompassing, so they all tie together. Yeah, does that make sense?

Speaker 3: 8:37

Yes, no, it does. I think what's driving me to have this conversation today is because I truly think that when we're talking about public health initiatives and we try to combine with faith, I think that we need to sort of tailor our messages. What people can continue to fulfill their religious duties? Because, as a believer myself, I grew up as a Roman Catholic. I'm a firm believer in the power of education and I have to say that I have. I sometimes wonder if the messages that we put out there in public health are actually reaching the people who really need it. I know that you talked about growing up in an impoverished area, and I would love to learn a little bit more about your experience, like in terms of getting access to healthcare or not getting access to healthcare, like how did you manage? Because, for me, when I used to live in Boston, I was a patient advocate, but I also am the daughter of immigrants, so, again, I had the responsibility of sort of helping my mother acclimate to this new system that she was not accustomed to, because in the Caribbean, you get access to healthcare if you have an employer who provides it, and so, again, even though Haiti doesn't have we don't have national healthcare. Everything is privatized now, but you have access to something that's considered a commodity in the US, and so helping her acclimate to the US and navigating the health system to help her get healthcare was an arduous process, and it shouldn't be that way. I don't think that health should be. I think health is a human right. It shouldn't be a situation where people are kind of fending for themselves, trying to scramble $2 or $3 or $20 of co-pays together just to see a provider. And so that's the reason why I wanted us to have this conversation, because I think sometimes, when we talk about public health, people think about it in a linear process. They don't understand that it's a cross cutting issue. That can you know. That can. That can affect. You know the, you know environmental factors. You know that can lead to poor health. That can. Also. That's related to nutrition, that's related to religious beliefs, because, again, I'm a firm believer in really framing our messages to specific audiences, but also helping them fulfill their religious duties.

Speaker 1: 11:17

Right, yeah. So how we handled our health care, grown up in impoverished areas, we just didn't have it. We just didn't have it, and so we used emergency room services whenever there was an emergency. But we were in a place where we, you know, if you had a broken tooth or you had cavities guess what they just got well, you dealt with the pain until you can get it removed. You know any of these kinds of you know health issues. We just didn't have the resources to deal with it and we, you know it teaches you a couple of things with that, michelle. It teaches you how to be tough, you know, it really does, but it just it. Also it's a constant reminder that you are part of a different class and in my mind, as a young kid I didn't understand what that really meant or the implications of it, but you felt it right. You felt it when your friends could go to the doctor, but you couldn't. You couldn't go. Your friends say I got to go to the doctor's appointment, you couldn't go. Or when we went to school and one of the counselors at school said hey, you know there's a problem here with this. Or you know, he keeps dragging his arm around. And have you ever seen? You know, let's take you to the counselor, take you to the nurse, and we got healthcare that way. So it was more emergency based healthcare rather than preventative healthcare at all. And so what? What my issues are and I think is why you are here today is to help us in the faith community to understand how physical health is part of spirituality. And, as I said at the very beginning, you know, a lot of people are religious in some form. Another and I'm not saying I'm not even categorizing everyone listening to this podcast or religious people, or Christians. They could be both Buddhist, muslim, you know, hindu, whatever the case may be Right. And so how do we? How do we incorporate that? Because traditionally, what we've seen is that people will will disassociate physical, physical health and spirituality. And so when you, when you include all of those together and see them as one collective like you can't separate them, right Then it becomes not only a, as you said, a social imperative right, With the issue of racism and the disparities and with racism and health but then it becomes a spiritual imperative, because you can't take away one from the other.

Speaker 3: 14:02

So and it's a spiritual imperative because, you know and it says that consecutively, whether it's the Bible or the Quran or whichever book we're talking about, even the Torah is that our bodies are like temples. I mean, would you, you know, would you and I, you know, invite, you know, our Lord and Savior into an unclean temple? I don't think so and I think, like that's, that's something for people to think about. When we're we're trying to fuse together public health and spirituality, it is important for us to take care of our bodies because, you know, that's the only way, like as they've shared in the Bible, at least, like from my recollection, that you can receive, you can receive your Lord and Savior, that he can kind of build a foundation there. You know, I think about it, you know I, you know there's so, there's so many ways that we can think about this, but I think what keeps coming up in the conversation for me, in terms of promoting health as a religious imperative, is really training our community members to become health advocates, you know, within their religious groups, because I think by doing so you create this sustainable model. You know, because you're integrating the practice of looking at your body as a temple within whatever you're already doing within. You know, you know existing practice, because I don't know if you, if you've noticed that, but people sometimes can be resistant to change. If they know that, for example, they're going to have to go out their way, they're going to have to do something extra. And you know the, the, the rain, the storm of excuses comes up. You know I'm busy, I'm, I'm a parent, I'm this. But then when you present the idea and you incorporate it in something that someone is already doing, they're more willing to follow through with the plan, because they think into themselves and it's, it's. They say this in psychology, one-on-one. They already thinking you know what, I don't have to do anything extra here because I'm already going to church, and this is part of the, this is part of the bulletin, this is part of the, the. I can't think of the word right now, but this is part of the program.

Speaker 1: 18:01

Yes, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 18:05

So so it's just something to keep that. As we were talking, I was thinking about that Because sometimes, yes, people do see it as two separate entities, spiritual and the health piece. Those are separate, but no, they very much intertwine. How can you serve God if you're not healthy?

Speaker 1: 18:21

Man, oops, man, no, that's a. That's a great question, Right? How can you serve God if you're not healthy? You know, how can you serve God if you're not healthy? Or, and how can you serve God if you don't see that spirituality is embodied in a person? Mm-hmm, you know what I mean. Very much, so, so. So when we talk about Michelle, what we're really talking about is having it. Is people have a disembodied spirituality.

Speaker 3: 18:55

Yes, it is I. I love the term disembodied spirituality.

Speaker 1: 19:00

Yes, yeah, and, and so how, how have like? Have you? Have you, have you encountered, you know in the medical field, or talked about in the medical field from maybe physicians or nursing assistants or what have you? Or even in an academic portion, the conversation of faith as it relates to a person receiving healing? Have you have you? Have you? Is that a conversation either where you grew up on or do you take that up in your studies today and your research?

Speaker 3: 19:31

Yes, I think for me, I take it up in my research. Again, I'm just finishing up my first semester, but it's giving me an idea of what to write and what to address in my dissertation. The topic of religion and I'm not sure if you've noticed that, but it sometimes can be a tough discussion to have with certain people, especially if they're not people of faith, and that's why I kept saying the messages that we share, in order to bring this topic to the forefront, has to be tailored to people. We have to meet people halfway. We have to tailor it to their religious practices for it to make sense to them. It's not something that I have sort of broached in public to my group or what have you, because everyone is coming from different walks of life, different backgrounds, but I do think it's a necessary conversation and we're actually starting this today, talking about this on this podcast, because there has been a movement lately to and this is what used to be done. I don't know why we stopped doing that. I mean, even during the Black Panther era, these topics were part of the conversation. Religious leaders were trained advocates to take care of their people. But, for whatever reason, something happened, a disruption happened and all of that went out the window and that's when you started seeing again the impoverished areas in the United States increase and expand, people losing their jobs, and all of that when you don't have the social capital to do what you need to do. When you have these industry jobs, these industry jobs just going away again, you're taking away people's healthcare as well.

Speaker 1: 21:31

Wow, and that's what makes it. And see, that's what makes taking people's healthcare away with their job, that's what makes it problematic, right? So then think about it from your perspective. It's a great point when you go from I work, but now I've been let go or I no longer have employment, which means that the healthcare that you had will go away eventually. And then they'll offer you with the Cobra deal. The Cobra deal is like okay, you can keep your healthcare with this company after you're gone, after the 90 days, and here's the price, and it's some astronomical amount that. I remember experiencing that when I left a job one time and they said you can keep the healthcare and Michelle, for me and my family, they said you can keep this healthcare for about six to 700 bucks a month. I'm like I can't afford $6,700 a month in healthcare. So you go from that experience to the worship house and people talking about Jesus, god dancing and speaking in tongues and the Holy Ghost, and you still thinking about how am I gonna, you know, take care of my daughter who's diabetic? You know, how am I gonna address these issues? And then it becomes a spiritual, and this is why I say this is when it becomes a spiritual and religious or faith issue, which what you talked about a moment ago when you said doing a Black Panther movement. I'm like you brought that up. I'm like, oh boy, here we go. Ha ha ha ha. So let's talk about it. No, let's talk about that. So why did you bring that up and what is the significance of that narrative in this conversation?

Speaker 3: 23:19

Because the reason why I brought up the Black Panther is because of the work that they did at the grassroot level. You know they are the prime example of how they've adapted strategies. You know from the feedback, you know that they receive from their community members and religious leaders in order to, you know again, take care of the Black community, of our communities, right, right, but if you pay close attention the moment that this group was disbanded. that's when you started seeing a decline, a decline in the health of, you know, of Black communities or other you know communities of color. And I bring this up because I just think that there's something to say about how we approach public health and how we take care of our own. And sometimes you can't always rely on you know, you know hospitals or any other entity. Sometimes you have to start the healing with any other entity. You have to start the healing within your own community. And how do you do that is through the people, and that's what the Black Panther embodied.

Speaker 2: 24:23

Oh man.

Speaker 3: 24:23

You know, not only did they take care of the health care piece, I believe they also provided food, they provided jobs. I mean you talking about public health, I mean this was them doing. This was like the early initiation of public health, at least in my opinion. Other people might disagree, but I firmly believe that.

Speaker 1: 24:44

Well, you know what other people are gonna say. But that was the Black, you talking about the Black Panther, the indignant. If you were violence by any mean necessary. You know movement. So how do people of faith okay, so how do people of faith reconcile that? You have people who were doing good in their community? You have organizations that were organic in the Black community, that were doing stuff, that were doing good work in their community, yes, but they were labeled and associated with absolutely, I would say, maybe non-Christian right, because you had the Black Panther Party, you had Malcolm, you had Martin right, and they sometimes they couldn't dig Martin because it was like nah man, I mean, we will use violence if we need to. So how do you reconcile those two? You know how do you deal with that, yeah.

Speaker 3: 25:40

I think when we're talking about reconciling, I think about it in a longer terms of when you look at a person you gotta well. I think about it from the concept of love. If you're gonna love someone, you're gonna love them. You know with the good and with the bad.

Speaker 1: 25:57

Right.

Speaker 3: 25:58

And we have to be very mindful that social media did not exist back then, but there were forces at play that were trying to discredit these individuals. I mean, you talked about Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. You know very prominent figures who were at odds with each other based on their philosophies, and so to me, like the way I reconcile it is you know, the Black Panther Party was not perfect, but again, if we focus on the mission, the intent was good and that's how I reconcile it, because I don't and this is just eventualism, but I never place anyone on a pedestal. I try to always give, take a holistic view on who this person is and then really focusing on the good in them. I really do, and that's what they tell you in all of these self-help books. You know, having positive expectations. Okay, let's be above that life. Okay, positive expectations. Well, that's the same thing with the Black Panther. Like, yes, they were labeled as such, but remember, no one is gonna kick down a dog if they, if no one is gonna kick down a person who's not doing right by their people, and I've noticed that people will always go a little bit harder on folks who are actually trying to do the right thing, but they will never kick down folks who are not doing anything, who are sitting on the sidelines. The Black Panther was trying to do something good for our community, and that's what I choose to focus on, because they said the same thing about Malcolm X. You know they villainized him. And also Martin Luther King Jr. You know, with the JFK files like towards the very end, posthumously. And so again, we have to contextualize. Contextualize those criticism and those feedback and then also look at the sources of the feedback. That's very important, oh, that's a good point. What's the feedback coming from people who actually knew them, who were part of the balcony of their lives you know very, very close folks. Or was it people who just dissidents, who just didn't like what they represented? And you're gonna find people like that in life. Sometimes people are not gonna like you because of what you stand for.

Speaker 1: 28:14

Absolutely. I remember being attached to a Christian organization and my kind of name. That organization and I was working in a warehouse for this time. This was when I was in college and they had a booklet that had. The booklet was titled the Greatest American Speeches in the 20th Century, something like that, something like that. And as I flipped through the book, you know who I was looking for. I was looking for Dr King's. I have a dream speech. You know what? I didn't. They didn't have it in that book and that stuck with me. And it was a predominantly I'm gonna say it a predominantly white organization, least in leadership. There was no, very to zero diversity, and they were also conservative, fundamentalist Christians and so somehow those two became synonymous. That is, if you are a conservative, fundamentalist Christian, the resources by which you listen to are sort of like speaking in a vacuum. We just regurgitating the same thing. We don't allow for influences from the outside. You just talked about the context. So when people think about, you have these individuals like Panther Party movement who were doing good in the community but they were criticized. But they were being criticized from people who were not a part of the movement or they were criticized from people who were injects the position to the movement in a negative way, right? So I think this is a great conversation and we're gonna pivot a little bit right here. I think we're on to a great great conversation, michelle, and on the other side we're gonna take a quick break, but on the other side we're gonna come back and we're gonna talk about I'm going to introduce you to this gentleman named Thomas, last name is Topkins, and he's talking about faith communities and how they can be instrumental in the Hathakil movement. So hang tight. So I want to kind of set this up here. So there's an interview here on Facebook I'm sorry, not Facebook, youtube and this individual has done a lot of research with how faith communities can partner up with the healthcare industry and how these, these faith initiatives have been making a huge difference in the healthcare industry, and then I want you to maybe give your input on that.

Speaker 4: 30:48

Okay, and reduction of violence against women. A big challenge. Initially a Christian based program, now a wider framework of partners, both faith and non faith based. Looking at the five areas in the paper which reflect the ways in which faith leaders have played a major role in the delivery of healthcare Immunization in northern Nigeria, massive changes going from low levels of immunization to higher levels of immunization just in the last three years, from reduction HIV programs, family planning programs, end of life care, all driven actually by faith leaders working collaboratively with health leaders. And the final section really is how can faith leaders and health leaders work together more effectively, especially with the viewpoint of reaching the hard to reach?

Speaker 3: 31:58

When I was looking at the clip with you, what I wish he had maybe define a little bit more is not just the just focus on the solutions, because he talked about the HIV, the immunization, like just all of these programs. But again, let's face it, these are technical challenges that have known solutions. It doesn't really focus on the adaptive challenges, like the root cause. I didn't get to see, like again, his root cause analysis of what's really driving these inequities, and I think that's the only thing I wish I had seen in the clip. But he did a fantastic job, just focusing on the yes.

Speaker 1: 32:37

Yeah, so you know, and of course it was just a short snippet because I didn't want to show the whole thing. So we can, you can go back. I'll give you the actually link. Please do show notes. Yeah, for sure, but what I saw there, that's a very, very good analysis you gave. What do you think of some of the driving factors to these things and how does you know, how would you say, are the contributing factors that we must consider?

Speaker 3: 33:06

I would say the one of the driving factors may be, you know, the socioeconomic people. Socioeconomic status, because, again, you know, you can, I can tell you that a dollar in the US, you, there was a time when you could stretch that dollar, but you can no longer do that, you know, due to inflation, what have you, and then also with the rising prices of products and what have you, is becoming even more harder for people to even buy medication. But I can tell you, when I lived in Senegal, I could stretch that dollar. I could stretch that US dollar, you know, to. You know, buy myself medication if I went to the doctor. And I think that that's one of the driving factors. Socioeconomic. So people are not having access to employment opportunities. Also, there's a poor infrastructure that's already in place. So already you're in environments where people don't have access to community health centers. You have transportation barriers. That's another factor. You know you can be sick, but you don't know, or there's no way for you to get from point A to point B because you don't have a car, or if you even have a car, you don't have money to put gas in the car. There's like no train, there's no, there are no buses, and so again. All of these factors can contribute to someone not being able to access care In a timely fashion.

Speaker 1: 34:36

Right, and this is where I think face communities can be participatory, right? Yes, face communities. This is where they can shine when they see and here's the critical point, I don't have my horns, I was going to play my horns. We had my horns up here here, wrong here, oops, sorry, no, that's bad Old dollar shot. But here's where he is, here's where faith communities can interject themselves into the conversation, and that's what Dr Tompkins was getting at. That we find that in the higher echelon of the physical of the healthcare industry, particularly when it relates to executives, there's a critical point is that you can have healthcare executives who sit on boards at your local church, but when it comes to coming up with healthcare policy, it's almost like they don't include their faith into the conversation. So you can hear someone on Sunday hear about how Jesus heals people, how God is concerned about the person, but when they're making healthcare policies, it's almost like the spirituality doesn't exist. And so what I believe is that and you can speak to this before we transition, because I want to show you another video but what I believe is that the way the church or not just the church, faith communities can enter into the policy making processes of these healthcare industries is through our service to filling those gaps that the industry cannot feel. And in military we call it spiritual fitness. In other words, even with the Navy SEALs, which is an elite Navy fighting force in the United States, military industrial complex, if you will. But they've also recognized that you can be physically fit, but part of that fitness includes spiritual fitness. And so the way that the church can enter into the conversation of policy and healthcare and I'm not saying like for proselytizing either, I'm not even getting, that's not what I'm saying. So if you listen to this, my listeners, I'm not talking about proselytizing the healthcare industry. What I'm talking about is taking the faith practices and embodying those practices and how we care for people, and that's when it becomes sort of a holistic approach.

Speaker 3: 37:16

It does it does, but with the understanding that we're also respecting the cultural norms and sensitivities of each of these ethnic communities, right, right, and that's always the tricky part, because when you go see your physician I don't ever and I don't know, maybe I may have a different experience, but they never talk to me, like you know. Again, they never give me advice or guidance, you know, based on, like my religious beliefs. They try to stay away from that.

Speaker 1: 37:50

Right.

Speaker 3: 37:51

You know it's kind of like you know church and state, you know they've kept it separate.

Speaker 1: 37:55

And that's so.

Speaker 3: 37:55

So we have. That's why I kept saying we have to also question the systems that enable us to be civil society, those behaviors or those practices Because you raised a great point the faith-based leaders creating policies. But how much more powerful can it be? You know, how much powerful will it be if they decide to like join forces with the healthcare industry.

Speaker 2: 38:21

For more than 30 years, church Health has played an important role in the Memphis community, providing high quality care to those who would otherwise be unable to afford it. We understand that hope, health and healing happen when we care for the whole person. That's why we bring faith, medicine, movement, work, behavior, nutrition and friends and family all together in one place, under one roof. That roof is Crosstown Concourse. Less than two miles from the heart of downtown Memphis, this former Sears-Robuck distribution center was revitalized and reopened in 2017. A million square feet of vertical urban village combines arts and education with shops, restaurants and vibrant public spaces. As the anchor tenant of Crosstown Concourse, church Health occupies 150,000 square feet and surrounds all four sides of the West Atrium on the first three floors. Our medical clinic extends over two floors with 52 exam rooms consisting of urgent care, primary care and subspecialty care. Keeping in mind the whole person, we embed counselors, dieticians and health coaches right in the clinic. Our staff, an extensive network of volunteer providers, hospitals and labs, support their needs to ensure quality of care. Church Health knows health starts at the youngest ages.

Speaker 1: 39:37

So sorry to cut that off, but this is what I'm saying Now. You make a very, very good point. This is a religious organization, historically right, that is seeing their faith as an integral part of personal health, and this is what I mean by embodying spirituality. Now I can guarantee you that there's no proselytizing going on in that situation, I can guarantee you, unless you have, like, an individual right. But this is the goal. The goal of this conversation, michelle, is that we get people to think about how faith needs to be embodied and translates into the world we live in. Otherwise, we're not really making any impact on making the world a better place. So that was pretty cool, huh.

Speaker 3: 40:30

That was pretty cool, Actually. Please include the link. I want to learn more about Church Health.

Speaker 1: 40:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll do that, yeah, so, as we sort of transition, I want you to share some of the thoughts I mean you do. First of all, you do a lot of different things right. Not only are you in the healthcare industry, and obviously, as a person of faith yourself, you see the impact that faith can have. You're writing the throes of research and getting all the data from a lot of different angles and coming up with your philosophy is how you're going to approach these situations in the future. But talk about some of the other things you do in reference to writing and didn't even get into that but and how all that sort of works together to help you accomplish your goals, to make the world a better place through the vein by which you do that.

Speaker 3: 41:28

Oh, yes, no. Thank you so much, lionel, for even asking me the question. So, besides public health being my passion, I am a writer. I'm an editor and founder of my side business, pathway Coach Writing, where I help edit and provide content feedback for different types of work. I mean, I've reviewed manuscripts, dissertations, novels, memoirs, you name it. I've done it, and I think that, just when I think about both of these fields that I have chosen right to you know, that's part of my calling the writing and the public health piece. I think the common denominator between the two of them is communication. I think that communication is the foundation, you know, to building a better world, and I use it extensively, you know, to build bridges of understanding in everything that I do, and so that's what I, this is what I do besides doing public health, and I've also written. Just again, I've been intentional in being published across different magazines, not just for the sake of just, you know, putting a face to Pathway Coach Writing, but really, again, embodying what I just said using communication as a tool, you know, to bring people together, to have conversation and to build community. And so that's how I would, you know, leave it online, you know. Communication, communication, communication. Ha ha ha, it feels a better place.

Speaker 1: 43:01

Also well, pathways, as you can see there. Her website is there Pathway PathwayCoachWritingcom, and we'll make sure we have all the information and show notes. I am happy that you've come by to have this conversation with us today, michelle, because I think we can at least start envisioning a faith communities and how healthcare communities can work together and build something like what we just saw with with church care and church health. I mean, that's one example, but I'm sure there are many, many organizations out there that are trying to do the right thing by people so they see that their faith tradition is not just something that is within the box of a Sunday morning sportship service or what happened, but it must go out into the world and affect people in a very, very, very positive way. Yeah, so we're all about helping people, we're all about having serious conversations, and that's one of the conversations we have, and that's why we had this conversation today, because we wanna push people in that direction. So great conversation, and I want you to walk away just as we started. Matthew 4.23. Jesus not only preached the kingdom of God, but he went about healing all kinds of sicknesses and diseases, and so it's time for faith communities to see that their faith must translate into how we impact the world, and I want you to make that a very, very important ethical behavior and stance that you take from this episode today, that you can go to church and you can be involved in your faith community. All these things are great, but what's even more important is that that trend, that faith, must translate to making a world a better place, and that's what we're about. We're Words for Change podcast, and that's what we're about with Lord Talks Media and everything we're trying to do. We want you to be a part of that. So, once again, your host, lionel, signing out, I thank you so much and look forward to our future conversation. We'll see you all hanging in there, thank you.