#53 Untangling the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: A Deep Dive into Christian Zionism's Influence

The most important thing American Christians can do is to reject the hijacking of the Christian faith by evangelical Zionists. Let's talk about it.

Scripture says that they will run out to him and, when they battle, worship him. Zechariah 13.6 says they're going to notice he's got wounds in his feet and then he's eh. They're going to say you're Jesus Almost. We've been so stubborn, we've been so proud, we've been so blind. Could you ever forgive us? And 2,000 years of blindness is going to come, peeling off the Jewish mind and those of us that have been caught up, the rapture and come with Jesus here to run. Oh, because the Christians have been raptured out. All who are born again will have been raptured when Jesus comes and be caught up to meet him in the air. Yeah.

But hello there. Words for Change podcast. This is your man, lionel, your host today. Man, we're going to cover a specific topic, a very, very critical topic that's in the world today, the world that we're facing Very, very challenging situation. For me it's very, very challenging because the truth of the matter is this we had not anticipated recording this topic, and not at all, but because of the recent issues in the news and all that we've been encountering there, I thought it would be necessary to engage with this conversation and topic around the Israeli-Palestinian issue. Shout out to my special one of our listeners who sent me a message saying hey, I really would love for you to talk about this issue from a religious perspective, and so that's our goal here today, and so I am excited to have this conversation in reference to the situation around Palestine and Israel, particularly as it relates to Zionism. That's the conversation we're going to have today. First, let's understand something that's vitally important to this whole conversation. Let's first understand that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a decade old struggle over the land and sovereignty and identity of these particular groups, and Jerusalem in particular holds deep religious significance for Jews, christians and Muslims, and this makes the focal point very, very contentious. This is a age old situation that has its starting point back in 1917 with the British occupation and how they designed to set up a Israeli state, really focused around Zionist aspirations During 1948, this is when all of this happened. So just kind of to give you even a more deeper understanding of the situation, let's look at it from this viewpoint. Well, back in when the Israeli state first began, right, there were somewhere between the neighborhood of 700,000 Palestinians who were displaced and were not allowed to return back to their native home as a result of this new found Israeli state In 1948, this is the context During the Six Days of War, western Jerusalem and Eastern Jerusalem was captured and Palestinians wanted East Jerusalem to be the future home and capital of a Palestinian state, and this led to the Oz Low Accord. And so, even though this stuff was developed and pushed, there were still some restraints that were put on by the new development of this state, and it's critical that we think about this. Some blockades were put into place, like even today Some people like to talk about how the blockades that are placed around Gaza Strip, which is just a little portion of land there that the Palestinians live on, but it's about 40 percent Palestinians, 60 percent Israel. Rule is the Israeli government controls the incoming of water, electricity, all these different things. So the blockade continues today around this whole strip of land. So there's a lot of control. There's control of trade by the Israeli government, there's control of electricity, there's control of aerospace, there's control of population registry. And I just take a moment to share this perspective here, and this is coming from Dr Gabon Manti, who speaks out about this issue. So just listen here and see what he has to say. He is a Jewish professor as well.

And you know what? In a small way, you could have ever created a Jewish state without oppressing and expelling the local population, which is what they did in 1947, beginning in 1947. And first of all with the British Empire protection, you know. But they did this. And then, in 1948, israeli historians, israeli historians, jewish Israeli historians have shown without a doubt that the explosion of the Palestinians was persistent, it was pervasive, it was cruel, it was murderous and with deliberate attempt. So that's what's called the Nakba in Arabic the disaster or the catastrophe. But in Israel you're not allowed to mention the Nakba, even though it was at the very basis of the foundation of the state. So once I became aware of all this, I was okay. Well, yeah, we created this beautiful dream, but we imposed a nightmare on somebody else. And then I visited the occupied territories, russell, during the first interfaith. I cried every day for two weeks at what I saw the brutality of the occupation, the petty harassment, the murderishness of it, the burning down of the Palestinian or cutting down of Palestinian olive groves, the denial of water rights, the humiliations, and this went on, and it's much worse now than it was then. So this is the background.

So here, from this take, we see something very important. We see that there has been an immense amount of displacement of populations, of people, as a result of the establishment of the Islamic I'm sorry the Israeli state. Now for you, my listener, I want you to understand that there are political issues that are at play here, but I am qualified to talk about this one thing, and this one thing is how Christian Zionism, or Zionism, particularly Christian evangelical Zionism, has played into this whole conflict. And my main concern is that Christian Zionism is often associated with a particular interpretation of biblical prophecy that promotes the unconditional support for Israel. Now, I'm not saying that, obviously. What I'm saying is that we should support any organization in the world that promotes human dignity, any organization in the world that supports human dignity, any organization in the world that supports human rights. We should all ways be about that. But the problem I have with Christian Zionism is that it is often associated with a biblical, prophetic worldview that promotes an unconditional support of a particular group of people and a particular stance, even if even if that organization, group of people or, in this case, state, is inciting violence on people. And how does that match up with Jesus' words about peace, pursuing peace, being people who ignite peace, being people who pursue peace. This is the problem. So, just so you'll get a better understanding. I want to emphasize this again, okay, because it's important that we get it. I'm not focusing so much on the geographical argument, even though there is a geographical argument and there's a geographical land issue at play here. That is age old. What I am concerned about in this episode for my listeners, is that the Christian evangelical right, or Christian Zionism, has attached itself to this issue and one of the main proponents that I remember from many, many years ago it has been pro supporter or having Israeli state, which again, I'm not saying I oppose that, because I think that's that's fair. Historically, because of this discrimination that Jews were experiencing in Eastern Europe led to the Holocaust angle. So they were experiencing discrimination, subjugation, and part of the way to get around that or get beyond that or began to re-establish themselves as a people after such a geographic, a world travesty was the development of an Israeli state. So I understand it's important, but when you have individuals like John Hagee, who is a Christian pastor of a mecha church in Texas, who has unwavering support of this whole movement, he's considered a Christian Zionist and his Christian Zionism is attached to this whole concept of the end time. Okay, you remember late great planet Earth was a book was written by how Lindsay, I think, back in the early 80s. You can research that. You also remember the left behind series that came out by Jerry I think Jerry Jenkins was his name and the whole concept of these, these books, was to prioritize that that part of the development of a Israeli state was the return of the Messiah, who would then set up Christians as part of the world domination in the future. So they believe that whenever Jesus came back, israel was going to be the dominant national nation in the world. This is what Hagee pushed as well. This is what all of these books were written about back in the 80s. So among many evangelicals, that Jesus will return and save his followers from the earth. So you can see even now why you have Christians. I am ism right. This, this support for maintaining of the Israeli state by any means necessary. They also believe Christians. I believe that Jews were God's chosen people and that they have the right for ownership of Palestine through a blood covenant Right. And this this is talked about in in the biblical scriptures right In Genesis 12, 123, god's promise to Abraham that he would give them a land, give them a home place, right? So Hagee and many others who aspire to his point of view in the world declare that American support of Israel is not only the right thing to do, but it is the God thing to do. And so here you have, these religious organizations, these mega church pastors, who are coming out ensuring unwavering support toward Israel. But I want you, as my listeners, to understand what, when you look at what's happening on the news, you're not getting the full picture. And I want you to get the full picture, but more so from a religious perspective, particularly as it relates to this whole concept of Christian Zionism. So when you see Christians or pastors, like Greg Laurie on YouTube and some of the others who are coming out and saying we stand with Israel, you go look at your Facebook post or go look at your social media posts and you'll see Christians who say what we stand with Israel. What does that really mean? Does that mean that people who Are committing acts of violence, it's okay for them to do that? So let's, let's, let's, let's continue to push here real quick, okay. So what we're saying is that there's a significant conflicting issue at play that the majority of Christian Zionism is a tendency to over simplify a deeply complex political and territorial dispute and, by framing the conflict solely in religious and prophetic terms, fails to address. Number one the multifaceted nature of the situation that's going on, and Christian Zionism, again, is the unwavering support and comes can sometimes come At the expense of Palestinian rights and aspirations. That's what we need to talk about as well. Number one Do do Palestinians have a right to have their land, to experience Freedom, justice, to not to experience hunger, to pursue their dreams, aspirations and goals as well? The conflict so the conflict is complex is long-standing, it's a territorial dispute, but what Christians, I need them to do is that they over simplify the issue. So Jerusalem holds absolutely immense, immense religious significance for Christians, jews and Muslims alike, and so this for strong support of Israel can sometimes by Christians, is usually promoted heavily by Christian Zionism, and it can contribute to an environment where peaceful negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians are hindered.

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been the focal point of geopolitical instability in the Middle East since the establishment of Israel in 1948. Although the vast majority of the international community, the UN and the United States publicly support a two-state solution to try and end this conflict, after decades of negotiation, final settlement has never been reached and tensions between the Jewish state and the Arab world continue to fester. Throughout this process, america has remained firmly behind Israel, as its greatest supporter. In fact, israel receives more us for an aid than any other country in the world. Now, much of this support has been attributed to a strong, wealthy and very pro-israeli lobby in America, which is true, but you'd think that the majority of the strength behind this lobby would be the Jewish community in the US, which is only partially correct because, as it turns out, in terms of sheer numbers, the evangelical Christians from America's Bible Belt Make up the majority of this lobby's power base.

If you're looking at this from a Christian perspective, we can't just be about the political and geographical Push on this issue and topic, but we must be a light in the middle of the darkness and say what is it that God is calling us to do? And be in the world, because I can tell you what. But being a Christian in a situation represents one. It represents being people who are Promoting peace, being people who are promoting justice, being people who are promoting truth in the world. And so Christian Zionism, unwavering support, is problematic number two, why people like John Hage and Greg Greg Lauren and some of these other people have attached themselves to this unwavering support, even at the expense of Palestinian's death, even at the expense of Palestinian subjugation, even at the expense of blockades. There's fit think about. There's 40 or 50 percent poverty level, unemployment level in Gaza, one of the most densely populated areas in the world. Over two million people are in that area, and so now you're talking about a community of people who are displaced. In the 40s, right Didn't have a right like land was divided up. So if you lived in Gaza, israel's aspirations to Escape subjugation, which they have a right to have, peace, live in peace and prosperity right that came at the at the expense of other people. But why Christian Zionism, particularly evangelical Zionism, is problematic? It's problematic because it is inherently tied to this concept that when Israel has a, has its rightful state in place, has its Geographical location, has established itself as a state, and this means that the Messiah is gonna come, that when the Messiah comes, then that means that the end of the world is coming right. This is called, and then this leads to what they call a millennial wrangler, christ. This is traditional evangelical Apocalyptic theology.

While the two-thirds of Jews who die are definitely getting the worst of times into the stick, it's a little less clear how the rest of the world fares in the pastor's end of day scenario. Can America get on the right side of Armageddon by supporting Israel?

Americans can let their legislators know support Israel.

The whole goal is to set up a Christian worldview where, when Jesus comes back, everyone who doesn't believe, everyone who doesn't hold true to the Christian value system however that's interpreted, but particularly for Christian Zionists and everybody else will be done away with, and who wins at the end? Right? So it sees Jesus not as a peacemaker, but this sees Jesus as a conqueror. Think about that. Seize Jesus not as a peacemaker and Jesus as a conqueror. Now, it's important to also understand that not all Zionists, not all Jews, are Zionists and not all Zionists are of the Jewish faith. Think about that. That's what we're dealing with. We're dealing with something that's so much deeper here, which is the reason why you'll see the unwavering support around this issue, particularly from Christians. They have an alternative motive that is selfish in nature. They're attaching themselves. This is why you'll see, they're attaching themselves to the topic, because they have a vested interest, and that interest happens to be the issue of the world domination, and that, my friend, is problematic. So what do we do? Here's what we do. Number one how do we deal with this? Number one we still have to be hopeful. Despite the complexities of the situation and the challenges that we face, there is hope for peace and conflict. Many individuals and organizations including Christians, good people are working toward promoting dialogue and understanding cooperation between the Palestinians and the Israelis, and that's important. It is vital that we encourage each individual people that we talk to at work and people that we talk to in our jobs to look at the nuances, to have a more balanced perspective. I talked to one of my friends who's been practicing Islam for many, many years, all of his life, and I told him I try my best to be balanced and he said please do, and I have friends who are Jewish. Same thing, right, but it's nuance. He said to me it's a tough one, man, for you to cover that. I said, yeah, I know, but it's important that people understand that there are nuances, right, understand the historical and political context, understand that the theological context, which is kind of what my specialty, is, right and I'm recognized the legitimate rights that people have concerning all parties involved, and I want to foster dialogue. That are essential steps toward achieving a lasting peace for both parties and I think that is critically important. That's what we need to be pushing toward, right? So here's what I'm going to say. As Christians, number one, we have to embrace the dignity of all human beings as foundational right, right, as foundational, as inherently, that every person has dignity and right to live in the be that God created everybody in God's image, and that disbelief should lead our deep concern for the suffering of injustice around the world in in for both Israelis and Palestinians. Right, understand that both of them have deep theological traditions about peace making and reconciliation. But as Christians, I think we need to really consider Jesus's words about nonviolence, about promoting nonviolence, not violence. So if you see a Christian, that's promoting violence, that's, that's problematic, deeply problematic, right, but we have to. We have to understand that these efforts to bring justice and peace through nonviolence must be promoted. One, we have to challenge injustice. We have to focus on addressing systematic injustices that individuals might emphasize, the need to challenge oppression and policies and actions that contribute to the suffering of Palestinians. You got to challenge them, right. You cannot be a Jesus maker who seeks peace in the world and seeks to overturn the world of domination where people, where violence persists and domination persists. That's not the way Jesus. Remember in Matthew five. Or you remember Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane when they came to capture him, what did he say? Disciples pulled out swords began to fight, jesus told him put your sword away, because if my kingdom was of this world, I could organize people to fight my battles for me. But that's not the point here. Their justice and righteousness is going to come through the changing of individuals, and those individuals begin to do good work in the world, not through the sword. Those who live by the sword die by the sword. So we've got a challenge in justice, one we have to have honest, theological reflection. The concept of the Promised Land is significant in both movements. However, their interpretation can differ. Some may emphasize theological understanding of the Promised Land, call for justice, inclusion, coexistence rather than exclusivity and occupation. Then we have to have interfaith dialogue. Number five engaging in Jewish and Muslim communities can be a powerful way to promote understanding. Engaging. What I mean by engaging? That means having conversations, talking with friends who are in these different communities. I have friends, my kids have friends who are in both communities, right? Number six we've got to advocate for human rights. This is of Christian value. Advocating for human rights. Individuals may consider supporting organizations and initiatives that work toward human rights. And number seven I'm going to ask you to do something powerful. I'm going to ask you to pray, do some spiritual reflection as we in the world seek to navigate through these complicated issues. It's not a black and white issues, it's extremely complicated issue, right. And then we're going to ask you number eight, to support grassroots initiatives. That's important, understanding cooperation between both Israelis and Palestinians. We need to nail our posts around supporting dialogue and understanding. Number nine is we have to avoid stereotypes. We can't be dehumanizing individuals. So to say that it's okay to push people out of the land is dehumanizing them. What Hamas did by coming down and citing violence on those people at that concert is dehumanize. It's not right on either side. So we have to speak against that. At number 10, I'm going to say we have to be hopeful, we have to seek peace, we have to maintain hope that there's going to be a better world, a better future for both Palestinians, palestinians in Israelis. And while the situation is complex and the theological perspectives can be complicated, we have to be motivated toward these things. So a theological response to this conflict should be rooted in justice, peace and dignity for all individuals. That's what's important here, right? It must be vital that we encourage that, that we encourage justice and peace for this situation. We have to falsely, dialogue and move toward achieving peace. So, once again, this was a special episode, but I want to thank you guys for listening. I want to thank you for listening to the Words of Change podcast and I hope that this discussion has shed a little light on the complexities of the conflict and that the role of Christian Zionism or evangelical Zionism is what we're witnessing here and sometimes, if we cannot allow or push for inequities in the world, but we must seek fairness and balance and balance perspective and work together toward a more peaceful world. That's what's most important in this subject. So, once again, thank you guys for listening, thank you for your continued support as we continue our very best to provide information to you that is critical and vital to not only your personal life and your personal change, but also how you are changed, because, remember, your world doesn't change until you change. Alright, thank you so much for your support and we look forward to talking to you soon. Peace, peace, peace, peace. You.